I’ve only had a Spotify account for a few weeks, and already there’s trouble. Sadly, I used up my lifetime quota of moral outrage, so I thought I’d parse this out instead to see if there’s a middle ground.
Neil Young was the first musician to pull his songs from Spotify in protest over Joe Rogan’s podcast, which I’m told spreads misinformation about COVID and accompanying vaccines. I would not know personally, because I do not listen to Joe Rogan.
Several other musicians backed Neil Young, and news reports said customers are canceling their accounts, whether it’s in solidarity with Neil Young or just because they don’t like Spotify anymore for various and sundry reasons.
I respect Neil Young’s position and have no gripe with his protest. It’s his music, sort of, because as it turns out, he apparently sold a chunk of his publishing rights in 2021, so I imagine his request to pull the music wasn’t as simple as all that. Anyway, as an artist, he definitely has a dog in this hunt, and his behavior is consistent with everything I know about Neil Young, who after all, wrote Ohio after the Kent State shootings.
Then there’s Joe Rogan. I had never even heard of him until all this blew up, and I’m glad I’ve kept to myself, a busy retiree thinking important sourdough thoughts.
They say he’s spreading misinformation. Yeah, well, take a number. Neil Young said the misinformation is killing people, and that might be true, but if listeners are basing life decisions on what Joe Rogan has to say, God help them.
A lot of us are like, fine, your choice if you go down that rabbit hole. Although I agree with Neil Young, I don’t think the world needs him to figure out who is dumb and who isn’t. However, people who won’t get vaccinated are making it even harder to get past the pandemic, and one could argue they are not just killing themselves, they are killing us.
Up to this point in the arguments, I’m kind of on the fence with regard to keep or cancel Spotify. Are they the good guys? The bad guys? Sure, they’re in it for the money, but who isn’t? It’s my contention no one – not Amazon, not Apple nor any other service you may care to peruse – can pass the purity test.
Just look at the junk that comes out of Fox. Can anyone shut them up? Are they screaming fire in a crowded theater? Dang, that pesky free speech thing is hard.
Whether it’s a television station, a bookstore, a music streaming service or home goods delivered straight to your door, there’s always the risk you will encounter shady business practices, vile content, unethical investments, deviant behavior and more. When you see it, you have to decide – is this my battle to fight?
As for Spotify, kudos to Neil Young, but I have decided this is not my battle. At least for now. Perhaps I can purchase moral outrage futures so I will be ready when the shit hits the fan, as we say in the Pekar household.
But for now I’m going to continue to ignore Joe Rogan and enjoy the music that makes me happy.
Your thoughts?
Interestingly Himself came home the other day to discuss this topic – subscription model music being way out of his usual area of interest. But, what he had to say is the inside track says that Spotify are in a squeeze position because they have a (hugely lucrative) contract with Joe Rogan for him to produce content specifically for them. So, no matter how big a star might decide to take a stand on this, Spotify themselves already have so much financial skin in the game, they’re unlikely to budge. I see that that Harry & Megan have jumped on the bandwagon. But I wonder whether they’ve got any financial skin in Spotify’s game, and whether they have any spare after their battles with the UK press.
My thoughts? I am trying to avoid a subscription model for digital music, and have been trying to get together the energy & enthusiasm to work out my options. This isn’t helping. But I get where you’re at on the subject.
I briefly considered options to digital subscriptions but didn’t come up with anything brilliant.
I should clarify – lucrative for Rogan, mega bucks from Spotify.
Note to self: FFS, proof read before hitting submit.
Hi, Donna – I don’t listen to Joe Rogan (never will) and I do not have a spotify account (I will probably never have that either). Still, there is lots to think about here. Thank you for sharing this.
You are welcome!
I don’t know anything about Spotify because as music lovers we have both Amazon Unlimited Music and a Sirius XM account. However, in of all places, the Skeptical Cardiologist quoted a letter from Neil Young about how Spotify works, and so I would guess, if you really want to hear music at its fullest, Spotify isn’t the way to go. That’s a personal choice. And I agree that there’s so much misinformation out there on any number of subjects, I just try to get my info from who I “think” is unbiased, fair, and uses reliable, accurate data and push the rest aside in order to keep myself sane.
The partial quote from Neil Young is this:
“Digital music has been with us about 40 years now. Digital, rather than reproducing copies of the music as we did back in the analog day, reconstitutes it from 1s and 0s and plays back data that you hear as music.
This allows business people like those who run SPOTIFY to cut the quality right down to 5% of the music’s content. It’s just math. It’s easy to do that with digital, thus allowing more songs and less music to stream faster. That’s because 95% is missing. Thats what SPOTIFY the Tech company does. SPOTIFY then sells you the downgraded music.
When I started everyone got to hear all the music. 100%.
AMAZON, APPLE MUSIC and Qobuz deliver up to 100% of the music today and it sounds a lot better than the shitty degraded and neutered sound of SPOTIFY. If you support SPOTIFY, you are destroying an art form. Business over art. SPOTIFY plays the artist’s music at 5% of its quality and charges you like it was the real thing.”
I don’t know if Sirius gives you the real thing but if it doesn’t, I haven’t noticed any difference in the quality of the sound that we get from Amazon. If you’re happy with the sound of the music you’re getting from Spotify, you’re good. A lot of my friends demonize Amazon so I’m screwed there anyway. Sometimes it’s a no-win world.
A lot of interesting information — thank you. I’ve read about Neil Young’s issues with digital music, and again, it’s not my battle to fight. I do understand your point. I’ll have to do a compare and contrast with Amazon and see if I notice a difference. It’s not like I’m listening to it on high-end equipment — just my phone, ear buds and traffic. Still, I see what you mean about supporting art.
As you said, there are lots of concerns about Amazon, so the no-win thing applies for sure. I’m also a Sirius subscriber, but I’ve never poked to see what’s underneath. I suspect they wouldn’t pass the purity test, either. In the end, I think it comes down to what cranks your tractor.
I had Sirius – but if you listen to it long enough, the stations at least, they play the same music over and over again. It has to go for me. I have Amazon music as a prime customer and I’ve used Pandora. Neither of those top the selection lists of available music, navigation and organization features that Spotify has. I have never heard of the downgrade – so I will study that some more. However, since most listeners are listening to the music through the car connection, AirPods, and phone type devices, quality isn’t as much the issue as it is when playing on a home stereo via Boston Acoustics. But I am still very curious and interested in discerning the quality. Hands down, I’m a Spotify fan because of the selection and discovery features. As I have a large collection of CDs and albums for my home stereo system, unfortunately, it’s limiting and streaming services do provide more music on demand. Computers no longer play nice with CDs and ITunes. So we are kind of pushed to subscribe or keep purchasing single CDs and plug along. I do hope the artists get their cut. I know that business has always been cut throat. Thanks for sharing.
As for the Neil Young stuff – I’m a fan of Neil – but it’s always something. If I unsubscribed or boycotted every business because of an issue, I’d be a self-sustaining farmer living off the grid somewhere by now. It’s frustrating. As Marie Kondo says, “does it bring you joy?” 😃
Because I’ve never used Spotify I honestly can’t give an opinion of it to compare it to what I do listen to. But then, I don’t listen to music when I walk, or podcasts, etc., and I imagine Spotify is especially good in that realm. I’m fortunate to live where I get to walk in nature and I just want to be “in it” when I’m out there. Plus, I’m managing a dog and a all terrain rollator, sometimes on slanted trails as I walk and I need my focus, especially if my dog sees a cat or coyote. My husband however, always has something in his ear when he takes the dog out for his before dinner walk. Silence is not golden to him.
I think that Sirius does a better job of offering a better selection of music in their rotations than Amazon does. Amazon excels when I want to hear a new album or a newly discovered (to me) artist, to play something specifically, or to have it randomly play something like “Play David Sanborn and similar artists.” You can choose any artist you like and ask to play that artist and similar artists and get a nice mix. My husband also paid to load the over 30,000 songs that he uploaded all of our CD’s on iTunes, way back when. So we can access that via Amazon as well. It boggles my mind sometimes how technology has changed so much of what we do. Most of it is good, some of it, not so much. We are fortunate to have a variety of choices. And as you (and Marie Kondo) say: “if it brings you joy…” everyone is the better for it.
Nanci – I read up on the downgrade of quality. The listener has a choice to listen in whatever mode they want. They indicate that the higher quality mode does require more data and that makes sense – as would streaming a movie or tv show. So I guess if one is pumping music through the home stereo system, they’d want to change the quality position to very high. When out and about or streaming – maybe it should be low if you don’t have unlimited data. But at least they offer a choice for the listener. 🙂
Good information. I don’t plan to subscribe since we already pay for two services that work well for me, but it goes to show that one needs to do their research before taking the word of just one person. Thanks for the clarification.
I have never listened to Joe Rogan or his ilk, and probably never will. I did cancel my premium Spotify account in order to show support for Neil Young. There is so much misinformation out there and now Neil Young gave me a way to vote with my wallet against it. I feel helpless and despairing most of the time about the misinformation pandemic, and felt I could actually take some action – however small and seemingly insignificant.
Deb
Exactly. Something spoke to you, and you took action. That’s pretty cool.
If I had Spotify, I, too, would cancel because I like to “vote” with my dollars. I don’t go to Hobby Lobby or to Chick-fil-a. Oh, and I never listen to Fox, although I don’t have cable, but, hey, it’s the thought that counts??
Interesting that I don’t go to those places either. I’m probably delusional, but they bother me more because the company is represented by people who mix their personal politics with business. As best as I can tell, Spotify isn’t political. They just mercenaries.
To me, it’s a storm in a teacup. I couldn’t care less about Neil Youngs opinion (even though I like his music) or Joe Rogans either. I’ve been a very happy paid Spotify user for a few years now. Love the choice of music and artists and the ability to make my own playlists. And to access playlists created by other Spotify users.
Derek.
I’m with you on this! I do like reading everyone’s perspectives and am happy this is a place where we can share.
Well…
1) Neil did have polio in as a child (pre-vaccine, early 1950s) and had partial paralysis. I certainly understand his resentment toward idiots like Rogan pushing lies and misinformation to the general public.
2) The arts have always been a key channel for social commentary. Why would you want to lose that? Too late I guess now that a meme or a tik tok video has now taken over.
3) Going back to 1. I stumbled across reddit “herman caine award and “sorry anti-vaxxer” sites a few months ago. I am stunned (and honestly, at times depressed) at how many people in the US live in their own self created bubbles of truth involving politics, religion, conspiracies, and delusions. The amount of hatred, racism, and pure willful ignorance is stunning. These people are not passionate about a topic, they are off the deep end/whackadoodle/dangerous.
There are so many people open to, and willing to mindless absorb, whatever is fed to them to that disinformation is killing them, literally. That’s why we care we what some of these people say. Six degrees of separation will come round to you in some form.
4) So I haven’t exercised for two years now. Threw my back out 2x in 2021. Went to a new physical therapy place as a result. Really updating thinking at this place. So, folks with lower back compression issues, try this: Imagine sitting in a dining chair and someone slowly tilts you back all the way to the floor. That the form you want to think about.
Lie on the floor, schooch up a chair or bench, and place your legs on the seat of the chair. You are looking for flat back on the floor, thighs pretty straight vertical, and legs horizontal, resting on the seat of the chair. This takes the pressure off the low back and the discs reflate in 10 minutes. Don’t use pillows for your leg support as they are too squishy. You can do this multiple times per day. Maybe worth trying if you have issues with low back disc compression. Really works for me.
5) Everything is “tempest in a teacup.” I feel I’m in a tiny minority of people who are NOT a) spending their time trying to be offensive toward others or b) spending their time being offended by everything.
Thanks for sharing your perspectives. I like what you said and how you said it! Bullet #5 are words to live by.
I like the back exercise and am off to try it. I do something similar, but I can see how this would be an improvement.
I think you had enough fights in your life, so enjoy Spotify as long as it pleases you.
And never throw a stone somebody picked up.
Yes, as long as it pleases me! By the way, I love that quote about throwing a stone somebody else picked up. Thank you.
Since I pretty much listen only to NPR (I’m not a big music-listener), I don’t have a Spodify account so I can’t cancel it. I think we all vote with our money one way or the other (and often, sadly, the vote is “I don’t care”). Joe Rogan sounds like a jerk. Although anti-vaxxers are keeping this horrible mess going long after it should have been tamed, Darwin’s theory is playing out somewhat.
You are so right that sometimes the vote is, “I don’t care.” Well said. I can’t understand what drives the anti-vaxxers and such, but you’re right about Darwin, too.
I really really really love music.Most days I play a French Cafe station while cooking, or some smooth jazz. Some Motown for cleaning house. Lotsa music in my house.I love Spotify. I am not fond of Joe Rogan, he just talks so damned much and has an arrogance about him I don’t care for. Misinformation? I am not so sure. I mean that in the most literal sense. The people he had on that show everyone’s worried about are physicians/scientists. We actually DON’T really know for sure the vaccine is safe, long term.it’s brand new!There ARE actually people who have been injured by the vaccine.There are websites and physicians and even a Senator (whose wife has been injured) who are sharing some of that info online. I am not pro or anti vax. I am PRO CHOICE (in all medical situations!) I am with you,Donna.. if you base your medical decisions on Joe Rogan you may be in serious trouble.On the other hand, do we want to ONLY listen to one channel (WHO and CDC?) There are other scientists and researchers out there. I feel we can be trusted to listen and make up our own minds.I also have a family member who has been injured by the vaccine, so perhaps I am biased.Like I said, I have no “opinion” about whether it is appropriate for someone to get their shots. It IS a personal choice. I believe,still, even during a pandemic, in freedom of information and speech. I love Spotify for the music and some of the podcasts and i don’t see any reason to cancel my subscription.Sorry to see Neil and Joni go.. but I can listen to them on Apple Music.
Maddie, you make some excellent points, but that doesn’t make it any easier to decide! Your comment about trusting people to listen and make up their own minds especially resonates with me. The commentary below sort of pushed me toward canceling, but I haven’t done so yet. Your thoughts, among others, are kind of keeping me in the middle.
I’m doing the free trial of Amazon Music Unlimited to see if I like it. So far, I think it’s easier to navigate on Spotify. I made a duplicate playlist and will walk this afternoon to see if I notice a difference in music quality. The thing is, Amazon won’t pass the purity test, either. Here’s the piece:
https://time.com/6144176/spotify-joe-rogan-controversy/?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20220205&instance_id=52274&nl=the-morning®i_id=78395058&segment_id=81758&te=1&user_id=159580622f638a0f6b16855e2304567e
Thanks, as always, for sharing your thoughts!
It’s tough to care about everything, so most of the time, I just don’t care about anything. No, that’s not quite true, but I’m getting there. I never know who or what to believe. Everyone has an opinion and why celebrities think theirs have more merit, I don’t know. There are too many sheep in this world today that follow without thinking. That’s why we’re in this mess. Sorry, nothing to do with Spotify (I don’t have it) but this situation applies to so many other things.
Well said, Linda. It is hard to care about everything, and it truly is hard to know what to believe anymore. If I’ve learned anything in the past two years, it’s that I know NOTHING.
I’m so glad my comments are coming through again. I hope I haven’t just jinxed it!!